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Filtermag
- Creatore Discussione mainfold
- Data di inizio
stead
TCI Advanced Member
:no:
piantala.......
:no:
son tutte boiate, continui ad aprire post inutili, ti han già bannato perchè provochi zizzania in altri forum che hai frequentato.......dove vuoi arrivare?
basta veramente
basta......
piantala.......
:no:
son tutte boiate, continui ad aprire post inutili, ti han già bannato perchè provochi zizzania in altri forum che hai frequentato.......dove vuoi arrivare?
basta veramente
basta......
al di là delle polemiche io credo che a qualcosa servano, comunque con 4 euro su ebay ti compri u magnete la neodimio e fai lo stesso lavoro.
Poi se a tè non importa di avere microparticelle metalliche che girano fra i pistoni sono affari tuoi.
Poi se a tè non importa di avere microparticelle metalliche che girano fra i pistoni sono affari tuoi.
cmq per info ultradettagliate consiglio la lettrua della "bibbia del'olio motore" Thanks to one reader who noted that in all of this page, until mid-2001 I had not given much, if any space, to the topic of filters and filtration. So here we go.
bosch It's all very well changing your oil often, but it's not just the oil that helps prevent engine wear. The oil filter does its part too. Dirt is the prime cause of engine wear. Not big dirt, like you'd see in a yard, but minute particles of dirt. It's dirt nevertheless, and it's abrasive. These contaminants vary from road dust (which are razor-like flakes from an engine's perspective) that doesn't get filtered out by the air filter, up to actual metal particles - the byproducts of the casting scarf from the original engine manufacture, and basic engine wear. All this nastiness is carried around by the oil into the minute parts of your engine, being rammed into the precision clearances between bearings and other moving parts. Once in, they don't come out easy, but tend to stay there, wearing grooves, grinding and generally messing up your engine. Other debris that causes problems are a by-product of the mere way an engine works - sooty particles from the combustion process can be forced past the piston rings and transported around in the oil too. This is definitely A Bad Thing - the soot acts like a sponge and soaks up other oil additives reducing the oil's anti-wear properties, and messing up it's viscosity. All this dirt is why oil goes black when it's used. That lovely syrup-like yellow that it is when you put it in is pure oil. The black stuff that comes out at an oil change is the same oil full of contaminants and by-products from wear and tear.
That's where the oil filter comes in. It's job is to catch all this crap floating around in the oil, and to stop it from recirculating. Most oil filters that you or I will ever see are the spin-on type. They're shaped like an aluminium can and spin on to a threaded oil feeder poking out of the side of the engine somewhere. They're called 'full-flow' oil filters because they sit in the normal flow of the oil through the engine. Sort of like an electrical component in series with all the other electrical component. Because it sits in-line, it has to be designed not to restrict the flow of oil around the circuit, and thus can only really be effective at stopping the larger particles. Large, in this case, is around the 20micron size. So here's the catch. The smallest contaminants are in the 10-20micron size range. Not only is that "extremely small", but it means that they pass right through the oil filter and back out into circulation. This is why regular oil changes are a necessity, because these tiny little things can be the most damaging.
spinonfilter
This is an exploded view of a typical spin-on oil filter used in automotive applications. I've sliced the filter element (the brownish-yellow part) so you can see the internal structure of the filter). Typically the engine oil enters through the ring of 5 or 6 holes in the base and into the main cannister. From there it is forced inwards through the filter element, through the drain holes in the central core and out through the central, threaded hole in the base.
There is another alternative, but it's only really used in heavy applications or for racing. That alternative is to fit a secondary bypass oil filter. This is sort of like a filter in parallel with the primary one. It doesn't restrict the flow of oil in the main circuit, but the oil that passes through it is filtered down to the 5 micron range, thus removing even the smallest contaminants. The newest filters claim to work down to 1 micron, though I can't confirm nor deny those claims. The upside is that by cleaning the oil so completely, bypass oil filters increase not only engine life, but also the life of the oil itself. This means longer service intervals.
Magnetised oil traps
beartrap beartrap Recently, magnetic filter additions have started to surface. I was sent one in 2001 to try out and it really did seem to work. The product in question was called the Bear Trap BT500. Their website can be found here (now owned by One Eye Industries). It's basically a sleeve made of foam rubber and plastic with some magnets in it. It bends to clamp around the outside of your regular spin-on oil filter. The idea is that the magnets will attract any metal debris in your oil and stick them to the inside of the oil filter wall, thus preventing them from going back into the oil circulation. Being of a curious nature (or stupid, depending on how you look at it) I decided to dismantle my oil filter after using the Bear Trap for 5000 miles. I learned a couple of things.
1. You shouldn't try to do this yourself.
2. It's bloody messy.
3. But most importantly, after a brief period in accident and emergency to stitch up the gash in my hand, I discovered that sure enough, there were tiny arrangements of metal filings clustered around the inside of the oil filter wall where the magnets from the beartrap had been. You'll excuse the lack of photos to prove the point, but I had other things to worry about. If you visit their website or that of FilterMag (below) you'll see similar cutaway photos.
So can I recommend their product? Yes.
filtermag Another alternative to the Bear Trap is the FilterMag - essentially the same style of product but from a different manufacturer. FilterMag can be found at this link.
An alternative to custom magnetised oil traps.
Thanks to John Nightingale who read my pages and then felt he should contribute something. For those of you who do more than just change your filter - ie. take off the oil pan completely, John writes:
" Next time you are in the mall or high street, drop into the Radio Shack or a hardware store and purchase a package of modern, powerful ceramic magnets. These are available in various shapes and they are cheap. Radio Shack sells a package of two wafer shaped magnets, for instance. Stroll out to your car at the end of your shopping trip, bend down and stick these magnets onto convenient flat surfaces the bottom of your oil pan either side of the drain hole or as convenient. Now the magnets will magnetize the steel of the oil pan in their area. On the inside, particles coming through the field established by a magnet will be sequestered by being stuck to the bottom of the oil pan. Next time you take off the oil pan, clean it out in the usual way, pull off the magnets from the outside, clean them up and then stick them onto the inside of the oil pan at the bottom but clear of the drain hole. This will give an even better result since now the oil is exposed to the naked magnets themselves. The bottom of the oil pan in the area of each of the magnets is also magnetized, of course, and contributing to the effect. Resist the temptation to stand the magnets on edge to expose more of their surface to the oil. Placing the magnets flat on the oil pan uses the oil pan's steel as a keeper for the magnets and will ensure that they stay powerful. Placing the magnets flat will increase the area of the oil pan that is part of the magnetic circuit so you will loose no particle pick up area by having the magnets lying flat. "
Magnetised oil traps - doing it yourself.
There's nothing really special about magnetised oil traps other than the type of magnet they use. Bear Trap and FilterMag basically offer a consumer-oriented product. But if you're a tinkerer, there's nothing to stop you doing it yourself. The magnets normally used are Neodymium, nearly the most powerful nonelectric magnet type. They are the kind of magnet used in computer hard drives, often coming in pairs held just a few millimeters apart with the back end of the hard drive head assembly (the part being made of coiled wire) in between. If you can find a couple of old hard drives - try the local computer junk store - you ought to be able to disassemble them and take the magnets out to stick to your own oil filter. John Nicholas Sarris, a reader of my site, suggested this and provided the following photos as an example.
diy filter magnets An open hard drive. The magnets (one visible) are in the upper left corner and are crescent shaped.
diy filter magnets The top magnet plate has been removed. As you can see on the lower magnet it is attached to a metal plate. I presume this it to keep the magnetic field from the magnets between the two magnets and not extend outside the hard drive case.
diy filter magnets The hard drive's head assembly has been removed. The lower magnet attached to its plate is clearly visible.
diy filter magnets A pair of hard drive magnets side-by-side. They are still attached to their metal plates because the adhesive used to attach them is immensely strong. I once removed a hard drive magnet from its plate, but broke it in half in the process.
diy filter magnets The same magnets holding themselves to my hand. I could have them stick to each other through my palm, but it was hard to take a good picture. This actually hurt my fingers a bit. As you can see they are strong despite being only 2mm thick. The plate they are attached to itself is 3mm thick.
The importance of neodynium magnets
I thought it worth pointing out here what a potential disaster awaits the home tinkerer if you just grab any old magnet and stick it on the outside of your oil filter. Your common or garden ferrous magnet, like those horrible souvenir magnets stuck to your fridge (you know you've got some) are usually made from iron, and thus have a limited life span which in some cases can be as short as 6 or 12 months. During this time they progressively lose thier power. Not enough for that hideous magnetic photo frame to drop off the fridge, but enough to be a problem if it was stuck to your oil filter. Why's that then? Well, come the end of the filters life, just as the magnet is weakening and the collection of metal particles is at it's highest, one good jolt and it could dislodge, and a large collection of metal shavings and filings could detach from the inside of the filter and find its way back into your engine all in one go. That would be bad. So as much as you might like the magnetic photo of granny and the giraffe from Whipsnade zoo to be stuck in a filthy oily place on your car, don't do it.
Larger filters on standard cars?
There's a school of thought which says that enlarging the oil filter on your car is A Good Thing. Why is this?
The small oil filters fitted to engines these days run with quite a high back pressure, and the bypass valve trips at about 3500rpm. That means that your oil is not being filtered when the engine is spinning faster than 3500rpm. As the oil filter does its job and starts to clog up, that rpm value can be lower.
If you increase the size of the filter, this will raise the rpm at which the bypass valve will switch. With a bigger filter and lower back pressure, for the same rpm (prior to bypass valve operation) less engine power will be lost in the filter. Bigger filter means better filtering and more power at low to mid revs. Clever eh? But there's some things you need to be aware of if you're going to try this approach, all of which are relevant, and none of which I can confirm or deny
* Bigger filter = more "dead" space = more oil. Remember you'd need to add more oil to the engine to keep the oil level at the correct mark on the dipstick. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - more oil doing the same job theoretically means less stress on the oil.
* Oil may take a little longer to circulate around the engine after startup, as the pump may have to fill up the larger capacity oil filter. With modern filters this ought not to be a problem though because all but the cheapest filters have backflow preventers which keep oil in the filter when the engine is off.
* Availability of filters and fouling. If you put a larger filter on it might foul something else in the engine bay. That is if you can find a larger filter to start with. The rule of thumb is to go to a motor factors shop, and find the oil filter that was designed for your engine .Then look through the myriad of larger oil filter boxes for a bigger filter that has the same screw thread and sealing ring diameter. Nowadays most spin-on filters have a 20mm screw thread so that's not going to be the hard part. Finding the same sealing ring diameter is the thing to be careful of. And don't ask the people at the parts counter. Because of liability issues, they're unlikely to sell you anything other than exact filter for your make and model of vehicle
bosch It's all very well changing your oil often, but it's not just the oil that helps prevent engine wear. The oil filter does its part too. Dirt is the prime cause of engine wear. Not big dirt, like you'd see in a yard, but minute particles of dirt. It's dirt nevertheless, and it's abrasive. These contaminants vary from road dust (which are razor-like flakes from an engine's perspective) that doesn't get filtered out by the air filter, up to actual metal particles - the byproducts of the casting scarf from the original engine manufacture, and basic engine wear. All this nastiness is carried around by the oil into the minute parts of your engine, being rammed into the precision clearances between bearings and other moving parts. Once in, they don't come out easy, but tend to stay there, wearing grooves, grinding and generally messing up your engine. Other debris that causes problems are a by-product of the mere way an engine works - sooty particles from the combustion process can be forced past the piston rings and transported around in the oil too. This is definitely A Bad Thing - the soot acts like a sponge and soaks up other oil additives reducing the oil's anti-wear properties, and messing up it's viscosity. All this dirt is why oil goes black when it's used. That lovely syrup-like yellow that it is when you put it in is pure oil. The black stuff that comes out at an oil change is the same oil full of contaminants and by-products from wear and tear.
That's where the oil filter comes in. It's job is to catch all this crap floating around in the oil, and to stop it from recirculating. Most oil filters that you or I will ever see are the spin-on type. They're shaped like an aluminium can and spin on to a threaded oil feeder poking out of the side of the engine somewhere. They're called 'full-flow' oil filters because they sit in the normal flow of the oil through the engine. Sort of like an electrical component in series with all the other electrical component. Because it sits in-line, it has to be designed not to restrict the flow of oil around the circuit, and thus can only really be effective at stopping the larger particles. Large, in this case, is around the 20micron size. So here's the catch. The smallest contaminants are in the 10-20micron size range. Not only is that "extremely small", but it means that they pass right through the oil filter and back out into circulation. This is why regular oil changes are a necessity, because these tiny little things can be the most damaging.
spinonfilter
This is an exploded view of a typical spin-on oil filter used in automotive applications. I've sliced the filter element (the brownish-yellow part) so you can see the internal structure of the filter). Typically the engine oil enters through the ring of 5 or 6 holes in the base and into the main cannister. From there it is forced inwards through the filter element, through the drain holes in the central core and out through the central, threaded hole in the base.
There is another alternative, but it's only really used in heavy applications or for racing. That alternative is to fit a secondary bypass oil filter. This is sort of like a filter in parallel with the primary one. It doesn't restrict the flow of oil in the main circuit, but the oil that passes through it is filtered down to the 5 micron range, thus removing even the smallest contaminants. The newest filters claim to work down to 1 micron, though I can't confirm nor deny those claims. The upside is that by cleaning the oil so completely, bypass oil filters increase not only engine life, but also the life of the oil itself. This means longer service intervals.
Magnetised oil traps
beartrap beartrap Recently, magnetic filter additions have started to surface. I was sent one in 2001 to try out and it really did seem to work. The product in question was called the Bear Trap BT500. Their website can be found here (now owned by One Eye Industries). It's basically a sleeve made of foam rubber and plastic with some magnets in it. It bends to clamp around the outside of your regular spin-on oil filter. The idea is that the magnets will attract any metal debris in your oil and stick them to the inside of the oil filter wall, thus preventing them from going back into the oil circulation. Being of a curious nature (or stupid, depending on how you look at it) I decided to dismantle my oil filter after using the Bear Trap for 5000 miles. I learned a couple of things.
1. You shouldn't try to do this yourself.
2. It's bloody messy.
3. But most importantly, after a brief period in accident and emergency to stitch up the gash in my hand, I discovered that sure enough, there were tiny arrangements of metal filings clustered around the inside of the oil filter wall where the magnets from the beartrap had been. You'll excuse the lack of photos to prove the point, but I had other things to worry about. If you visit their website or that of FilterMag (below) you'll see similar cutaway photos.
So can I recommend their product? Yes.
filtermag Another alternative to the Bear Trap is the FilterMag - essentially the same style of product but from a different manufacturer. FilterMag can be found at this link.
An alternative to custom magnetised oil traps.
Thanks to John Nightingale who read my pages and then felt he should contribute something. For those of you who do more than just change your filter - ie. take off the oil pan completely, John writes:
" Next time you are in the mall or high street, drop into the Radio Shack or a hardware store and purchase a package of modern, powerful ceramic magnets. These are available in various shapes and they are cheap. Radio Shack sells a package of two wafer shaped magnets, for instance. Stroll out to your car at the end of your shopping trip, bend down and stick these magnets onto convenient flat surfaces the bottom of your oil pan either side of the drain hole or as convenient. Now the magnets will magnetize the steel of the oil pan in their area. On the inside, particles coming through the field established by a magnet will be sequestered by being stuck to the bottom of the oil pan. Next time you take off the oil pan, clean it out in the usual way, pull off the magnets from the outside, clean them up and then stick them onto the inside of the oil pan at the bottom but clear of the drain hole. This will give an even better result since now the oil is exposed to the naked magnets themselves. The bottom of the oil pan in the area of each of the magnets is also magnetized, of course, and contributing to the effect. Resist the temptation to stand the magnets on edge to expose more of their surface to the oil. Placing the magnets flat on the oil pan uses the oil pan's steel as a keeper for the magnets and will ensure that they stay powerful. Placing the magnets flat will increase the area of the oil pan that is part of the magnetic circuit so you will loose no particle pick up area by having the magnets lying flat. "
Magnetised oil traps - doing it yourself.
There's nothing really special about magnetised oil traps other than the type of magnet they use. Bear Trap and FilterMag basically offer a consumer-oriented product. But if you're a tinkerer, there's nothing to stop you doing it yourself. The magnets normally used are Neodymium, nearly the most powerful nonelectric magnet type. They are the kind of magnet used in computer hard drives, often coming in pairs held just a few millimeters apart with the back end of the hard drive head assembly (the part being made of coiled wire) in between. If you can find a couple of old hard drives - try the local computer junk store - you ought to be able to disassemble them and take the magnets out to stick to your own oil filter. John Nicholas Sarris, a reader of my site, suggested this and provided the following photos as an example.
diy filter magnets An open hard drive. The magnets (one visible) are in the upper left corner and are crescent shaped.
diy filter magnets The top magnet plate has been removed. As you can see on the lower magnet it is attached to a metal plate. I presume this it to keep the magnetic field from the magnets between the two magnets and not extend outside the hard drive case.
diy filter magnets The hard drive's head assembly has been removed. The lower magnet attached to its plate is clearly visible.
diy filter magnets A pair of hard drive magnets side-by-side. They are still attached to their metal plates because the adhesive used to attach them is immensely strong. I once removed a hard drive magnet from its plate, but broke it in half in the process.
diy filter magnets The same magnets holding themselves to my hand. I could have them stick to each other through my palm, but it was hard to take a good picture. This actually hurt my fingers a bit. As you can see they are strong despite being only 2mm thick. The plate they are attached to itself is 3mm thick.
The importance of neodynium magnets
I thought it worth pointing out here what a potential disaster awaits the home tinkerer if you just grab any old magnet and stick it on the outside of your oil filter. Your common or garden ferrous magnet, like those horrible souvenir magnets stuck to your fridge (you know you've got some) are usually made from iron, and thus have a limited life span which in some cases can be as short as 6 or 12 months. During this time they progressively lose thier power. Not enough for that hideous magnetic photo frame to drop off the fridge, but enough to be a problem if it was stuck to your oil filter. Why's that then? Well, come the end of the filters life, just as the magnet is weakening and the collection of metal particles is at it's highest, one good jolt and it could dislodge, and a large collection of metal shavings and filings could detach from the inside of the filter and find its way back into your engine all in one go. That would be bad. So as much as you might like the magnetic photo of granny and the giraffe from Whipsnade zoo to be stuck in a filthy oily place on your car, don't do it.
Larger filters on standard cars?
There's a school of thought which says that enlarging the oil filter on your car is A Good Thing. Why is this?
The small oil filters fitted to engines these days run with quite a high back pressure, and the bypass valve trips at about 3500rpm. That means that your oil is not being filtered when the engine is spinning faster than 3500rpm. As the oil filter does its job and starts to clog up, that rpm value can be lower.
If you increase the size of the filter, this will raise the rpm at which the bypass valve will switch. With a bigger filter and lower back pressure, for the same rpm (prior to bypass valve operation) less engine power will be lost in the filter. Bigger filter means better filtering and more power at low to mid revs. Clever eh? But there's some things you need to be aware of if you're going to try this approach, all of which are relevant, and none of which I can confirm or deny
* Bigger filter = more "dead" space = more oil. Remember you'd need to add more oil to the engine to keep the oil level at the correct mark on the dipstick. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - more oil doing the same job theoretically means less stress on the oil.
* Oil may take a little longer to circulate around the engine after startup, as the pump may have to fill up the larger capacity oil filter. With modern filters this ought not to be a problem though because all but the cheapest filters have backflow preventers which keep oil in the filter when the engine is off.
* Availability of filters and fouling. If you put a larger filter on it might foul something else in the engine bay. That is if you can find a larger filter to start with. The rule of thumb is to go to a motor factors shop, and find the oil filter that was designed for your engine .Then look through the myriad of larger oil filter boxes for a bigger filter that has the same screw thread and sealing ring diameter. Nowadays most spin-on filters have a 20mm screw thread so that's not going to be the hard part. Finding the same sealing ring diameter is the thing to be careful of. And don't ask the people at the parts counter. Because of liability issues, they're unlikely to sell you anything other than exact filter for your make and model of vehicle
Ultima modifica:
Duch
TCI Advanced Member
se realmente serviva a qualcosa le case automobilistiche lo fornivano di base, è come mettere una dinamo a una ruota per criceti, alla fine non serve a nulla!
piero7510
Supporter
Ma, secondo me il "pulviscolo" metallico di usura che l' olio porta con sè è già trattenuto agevolmente dalla cartuccia filtro, d' altra parte, se così non fosse, a cosa servirebbe?
Al limite può essere un "aiutino" in più, considerato che il costo è modesto e che problemi non ne può causare.......
Condivido quanto scritto da Duch, se veramente fosse di utilità le Case automobilistiche lo installerebbero di fabbrica.
Il concetto, comunque, non è nuovo: alcune auto e moto di alcuni decenni fa inglobavano un magnete nel tappo di scarico dell' olio.
Quando si sostituiva, si provvedeva quindi a ripulire il tappo dagli eventuali residui metallici che aveva attirato magneticamente nella coppa dell' olio e che vi erano rimasti appiccicati.
Al limite può essere un "aiutino" in più, considerato che il costo è modesto e che problemi non ne può causare.......
Condivido quanto scritto da Duch, se veramente fosse di utilità le Case automobilistiche lo installerebbero di fabbrica.
Il concetto, comunque, non è nuovo: alcune auto e moto di alcuni decenni fa inglobavano un magnete nel tappo di scarico dell' olio.
Quando si sostituiva, si provvedeva quindi a ripulire il tappo dagli eventuali residui metallici che aveva attirato magneticamente nella coppa dell' olio e che vi erano rimasti appiccicati.
J
jospom
I residui metallici credo che venfganoeliminato dopo il primo tagliando; se poi consideriamo un motore in alluminio il magnete serve? si ritorna dunque alla sostituzione dell'olio
non tutti i componenti del motore sono di alluminio, ad esempio i cuscinetti.
non tutta la porcheria viene via col primo tagliando, ed altro pulviscolo si crea con l'usura.
Non tutto il pulviscolo viene filtrato, sotto una certa misura il pulviscolo passa nel filtro.
non tutto cio che è utile viene utilizzato dalle case produttrici, e non sono nemmeno sicuro che nessuno lo utilizzi
J
jospom
Perfetto, ma se devo stare attento anche alle nano particelle, non mi conviene acquistare neppure un auto.Penso che una sostituzione del filtro olio e cambio ogni 15k e/o annuo; pulizia interna del motore mediante prodotti specifici prima della sostituzione del lubrificante, assicurano un buon mantenimento dell'auto
CASH_79
TCI Member
si stessa cosa del tucker vi ricordate??? porcherie che non servono a nulla,anzi a farci spendere soldi a vuoto
avensalle
TCI Advanced Member
Poteva avere un minimo di senso anni fa quando i serbatoi erano di ferro... infatti ancora oggi molti aziende usano dei piccoli magnetini nella zona filtro in fase liquida negli impianti a GPL, perchè i serbatoi sono in acciaio e spesso, essendo poco'trattati' all'interno, rimangono residui metallici che vengono via via trascinati dal gpl durante l'utilizzo; ciò provoca mlfunzionamenti alle elettrovalvole che aprono e chiudono l'afflusso del gas al motore.
Però, anche se fosse, questi residui non dovrebbero fare danni al motore (al tatto si presentano come un finissimo pulviscolo nero, tipo borotalco, tanto x darvi un'idea... passano attraverso filtri da 5-10 micron) e verrebbero eliminati in maggior parte dai cambi olio.